The Right People in the Right Roles with Tim Guest

Tim Guest, Managing Director of Infinite Wealth, helps everyday Australians reach their financial goals. After having first retired at the age of 27 as a self-made multimillionaire, he is now an investor, entrepreneur, financial educator, and motivational speaker and author well known for leading seminars promoting financial literacy and education. Thousands of people each year attend his seminars, making him currently the most watched independent financial educator in Australia. His entrepreneurial journey includes some valuable lessons about the cost and complexity of rapid growth and how his study with Influence Ecology dramatically changed the way he operates his businesses.

In this episode’s talk, we hear Co-Founder Kirkland Tibbels speak about “Personality and the Transactional Approach,” giving each of us new ways to work more efficiently with differing personalities.

Below you’ll find a transcript of this podcast episode that has been edited for your reading pleasure. You’ll also see links at the bottom of this post where you can find more information on the people and ideas mentioned in the episode.

by John Patterson
Produced by: John Patterson, Jason Kelley & Tyson Crandall

John Patterson: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are in the world. I’m your host, John Patterson, the Co-founder and CEO of can Influence Ecology. We are the leading business education in transactional competence, broadcasting from Ohio, California.

This podcast features case studies, stories and lessons from business owners, executives and entrepreneurs. We find real solutions, real results, and real satisfaction. Not only with work, career, money, but in every area of life. You’ll hear how these ambitious professionals found hose who transact powerfully cried.

Our feature to interview is with Tim Guest, the managing director of Infinite Wealth. This company helps everyday Australians reach their financial goal. After having first retired at the age of 27 as a self made millionaire, he is now an investor, entrepreneur, financial educator, motivational speaker and author, well known for leading seminars, promoting financial literacy and education. Thousands of people each year attend his seminars, it’s making him currently the most watched independent financial educator in Australia.

His entrepreneurial journey includes some valuable lessons about the cost and complexity of rapid growth and how his study with Influence Ecology dramatically changed the way he operates his business. Our guru talk today, we’ll hear cofounder Kirkland Tibbels speak about personality and the transactional approach, giving each of us new ways to work more efficiently with differing personalities. Here’s the interview.

Tim, it is such a pleasure to spend some time with you today. Is there anything else that we should know about you?

Tim Guest: I think you did a fantastic job, John. I think that’s about it.

John: First of all, I want to know your early lessons in some of the notes that you sent somebody who met very early on, taught you what to do about making money. Anything you’d like to share with us about that early journey?

Tim: John, probably the most critical turning point for my came as when I was a teenager. I grew up in a pretty poor background, single income family. My Dad, worked his guts out so that mom could stay at home with us kids. He actually took a redundancy payout to studies on business when I was a teenager. Worked his guts out in a business. My dad is an ex navy man, ex cattle farmer very hard worker. He toiled very, very hard but the business failed. It had a lot to do with the timing. It was during the recession of the late ’80s early ’90s and then the real problem that my dad had was struggling to find work. Pretty much the lower middle management tier got wiped out primarily in that recession, and it took him two years to find work.

A real turning point for me it was a day as a teenager, I did something upset my dad, not really sure what it was. He got angry, he chased me, I ran, I ran up the stairs and he collapsed in a heap and he was crying and he kept on apologizing and it was the first time I’d ever seen my dad cry or apologize.

For me, I think it really brought home how smart, hardworking man, all he wanted to do was provide for his family, not being able to do that. I really got to see the true nature of what financial stress can do to people. All I’d ever wanted to do was be maverick from top gun. I just wanted to be a pilot my whole life but from that moment on my life became very focused on making sure that I had enough money. I’m not as tough as my dad and while it broke him, it would almost certainly kill me. That was a real defining moment for me as a teenager and things really progressed from there.

John: You talked about someone who taught you something about finance or investing. Can you tell us about that?

Tim: Yes, sure. I pursued the past that most people normally would. I thought my plan to financial security was go and get a job, work really hard, get paid, climb the ladder, earn higher incomes, and that’s how I was going to reach financial security, but it didn’t take me too long and I don’t think it takes many people too long to figure out that financial security is never really going to come by working for someone else. I then thought, well, okay, if that’s not going to work, I better work for myself.

I started some businesses and started working for myself, but realized that didn’t seem like it was going to provide necessarily a solution either. You typically work and labor a lot harder when you’re working in a business yet often the financial rewards don’t seem to be much greater and call it a chance encounter or probably. I think I was actually looking for it. If I wasn’t looking for it, I wouldn’t have seen it. I met the first real life multimillionaire that I’d ever met and he taught me the fundamentals of creating wealth.

John: Then in your journey you took his advice, you did very, very well for yourself. At 27 you retired a multimillionaire, is that correct?

Tim: That’s correct, yes.

John: At 27, when I was 27 I think, I don’t remember what the heck I was doing, but [laughs] I certainly don’t remember being savvy enough to do much of anything personally. At 27 years old, what did that do to your thoughts about yourself or your life or the situation that you described before about not wanting to find yourself in the same places as your dad had done.

Tim: It was 29 that are really learned something about money. How to invest and what to invest in and how to structure things. Another thing that also played into it is we were in the second phase of the land cycle between the periods of around about 2000 to 2007, so timing also had a lot to do with it as well. If I had done the same things but in a different stage of the land cycle I would have been successful but not to the same degree. Timing did play a big part.

I think the other thing that I really learned primarily I had a goal that I wanted to be retired prior to 30. I reach that by the age of 27. John, you might imagine picture a 27 year old with way too much money and that there’s a pretty accurate picture of what I was getting up to. Things, cars, travel girls, that kind of stuff. Like I said, at 29 I learned a lot more about myself and yet while I had a life that most people probably would love to have, I was actually pretty dissatisfied and miserable to be perfectly honest.

John: How come?

Tim: Well, like I said, I think I used money as a way of filling that hole inside of me. I thought if I drove $220,000 car and if I had a luxury boat that I was sitting on then that I guess satisfied the thing inside of me that I thought wasn’t good enough. It didn’t, nothing in that area changed. It wasn’t until I had to embark on a bit of a journey of self discovery to realize money was not what I cared about. It wasn’t the real aim that I was out to satisfy. The thing that I really wanted to do is I want to feel like I contribute and make a difference and we had to help other people.

John: It’s really great. Let’s just stop there for a moment and if you think about any lessons that you’d like to give away about someone who’s moving only towards money or anyone who might identify with your earlier mindset, any words of wisdom for them?

Tim: I think that probably the most valuable thing that I learned is I saw money as an outcome. The white point to achieve where really what I learned was actually money is more of a vehicle. It’s something that you can utilize to actually have you fulfill on your goals and fulfill on the things that you want to achieve in your life rather than the goal or the thing you’re out to achieve itself. Picture, if you are financially secure, if you are financially free, what would that look like? For most people, the first thing they start to think about is things like the house that they’re going to live in and the car they’re going to drive and the holidays that they’re going to go on.

Certainly from someone that’s been on the other side of it, that stuff is fun to have. I’m not going to say that people shouldn’t aspire to those things, but they get old pretty quickly. In my experience, the thing that I’ve learned is that most people, once they’ve really satisfied their need from a financial perspective, what they really start to think about is what is their life really about? What’s the difference that they want to make? What’s the dent they want to leave behind on this planet?

Personally, I’ve found it’s been in the pursuit of that, that I’ve found the greatest level of satisfaction, the greatest level of passion. It’s difficult, but it’s been definitely way more satisfying.

John: How come more difficult?

Tim: Money’s an inanimate object. People aren’t, people who are much more difficult thing to work with, to try and coordinate. The biggest challenge that I’ve had in growing our businesses has been from the human perspective, people and your personnel, how to manage people, how to identify people. Making a difference in our world is a pretty bold endeavor. It’s something much bigger than making a million dollars.

John: Well said. After this early period, you started to move in some other directions and saw that you wanted to contribute and make a difference. You started to teach people some of the things that you know, and it sounds like that in the early days that the business really took off. Is that correct?

Tim: Yes. It took a little while for us to really formulate what the business would look like, but I wanted to assist other people to do what I’d done and also with the background being that I didn’t figure this out, I didn’t discover some new way. Someone literally gave me these tools and I felt an obligation to myself to give it away to other people.

It did really start by helping friends and family, but it quickly went beyond that. In Australia, we quite regularly exchanged things like beer for financial advice so people would offer to take me out to dinner or sit down and have a beer with me if I could give him some direction. We thought we were helping all these people, we could certainly formulate this into a business.

I remember when I initially launched the business it took me all around about 24 hours to come up with the name and register the domain and register the company and arrange our first marketing event. We generated 300 leads and then had 80 people attend at a hotel here in Perth. On that night 22 people became clients and then we saw very rapid expansion.

We had exponential growth happening in the first few years and it started to become a struggle. It was very easy to manage when we were a small group of people but as the team started to expand and obviously as our client base started to expand as well, it was where we really started to encounter some difficulty.

John: Is this the point you came to study at Influence Ecology or was this a little bit later?

Tim: It was around about the same time. We started experiencing the difficulty first and then not long after we started to participate with Influence Ecology.

John: How come you started participating here? What led you to this or what were you dealing with where this became a solution to what ailed you?

Tim: The way that we came to participate in the programs, the thing that I was dealing with at the time was, we’re really busy at the moment trying to handle everything. I don’t really think I have time to do a program. One of my senior managers, he was adamant that this would provide us with some solutions and he decided that he would do the program and I wanted to do the program at the same time as him. We kind of jumped in the deep end.

John: When you started was there something that first surprised you about what we taught? What did you first experience your encounter when you started to participate here?

Tim: The thing that cut as being most valuable when we first started to participate was the faculty that Influence Ecology had around personality types and the way that those particular kind of personality types transact. We saw some great value in that at the time. We needed to expand our employee base and we were finding it very difficult to locate not only good quality employees but also having them soup the roles that they were in.

Of course, we also had the other challenge being that sometimes we were picking people who looked great, they interview great, they say all the right things, but then once you actually got them into a position weren’t able to produce the results that we were after.

John: You did some really fun things about selecting the right people for the right roles. Can you tell us any stories about that?

Tim: We had to really play with it a lot. One of the things that we learned obviously about the personality types is that once you can identify the personality types, while it’s not always exact because people are individuals and no two people are ever going to be the same, there are common traits that you’ll find in a group of that kind of personality type.

The hard problem was identifying them. Initially, we thought we could just have them do some kind of personality tests but once again, that was the same as the interview process. People kind of know what you want to hear or if they’re applying for a sales role, they’ll answer questions like they’re good with people and that’s what they enjoy doing and they aren’t always necessarily truth.

Maybe they are answering them as truthfully as possible, but it’s maybe it’s not an accurate reflection of their personality type. We had to really experiment with different ways to be able to determine the personality types. We did have some fun with it. We really took something from the personality traits, seem to be most applied when people are under stress or being agitated.

We actually arranged a lot of our recruitment procedures to put them in situations that would have them be agitated and stressed. Things like we would have applicants turn up expecting to be in a one-on-one interview and we would have them in a group interview setting. We would have them almost kind of play off against each other or do public testing and we could see how the different personality types would react to that.

Some of them would be upset, their arrogance or their ego would come out. We’d see other people retrace into their shell and then other people particularly when we’re looking for sales roles they just want to kind of chat and have fun with everyone. We did learn a lot from that and it has enabled us to structure a recruitment process now that is certainly not perfect.

We’re still developing it, but it’s way more accurate than it ever was before.

John: That’s great. I have a question. I love this question. It’s one I asked almost everyone. When you first started to study here, what did you discover about your own naivete or conceit?

Tim: Being able to identify my own personality type, I was actually a little bit shocked to begin with. I thought I was one particular personality type.

John: What was that?

Tim: I thought I was a perform personality type. I speak for a living doing presentations and things like that. I thought I was more of the performer. I thought I was more extroverted, external. I’d been in sales my whole life. I thought I was more of that kind of people person, then I started to learn that I am straight down the line an inventor personality type.

I started to see first and foremost, the liability that constantly creating ideas is, our business was a very wide business. In a very short period of time because of the success, I think I probably attributed a lot of the success to just basically how good I was and because I was good I could keep on creating all these different businesses that would just succeed because I was that smart, that good of a leader. Those kind of things.

Of course, having an idea is one thing, being able to implement is another. We had a couple of businesses start early on that we’ve since close to enable us to focus. I also learned that my strength is in looking into the future and creating solutions, but I actually hate focusing on detail. I don’t like doing the detail right now work, the planning and the implementation and the coordinating of action.

I want to come up with an idea and we want to be able to hand it off to someone else who will fulfill it for me. Once I was able to learn about my personality type, I was able to realize what I’m good at and what I’m weak at. I have other people that are better at doing the things that I’m weak at do those things, focus on what I am good at and then also limit some of the dangerous and destructive behaviors that I have which is my optimistic nature.

My want to just keep on creating ideas and then also my tendency to not focus on the details of the matter of hand.

John: I think it’s useful since you are an inventor. I had the same experience. I thought I was a performer when I first started because I’d spent my whole life in public speaking roles, up in front of people, leading programs. I was the people person. I was in sales. It’s like almost the same exact story. I’m curious about your own journey because as it’s relevant to mine or to other people who might be listening.

You said something really great, which is, “I thought I was this but discovered I was that. I thought it was a performer, but I found out I was an inventor.” I’m just kind of inquiring into why so many people probably assume that they’re a fit for certain jobs or roles in society or in careers. Since we teach transactional competence and personality is addressed in a particular way, what’s your opinion about how critical it is to discover which transactional personality that you are?

Tim: I think the best way to say it is to share how liberating it was to learn and embrace my personality type.

John: [laughs] I’m laughing because it’s like I remember. Sorry, go ahead.

Tim: It was such a relief being that I thought I was extroverted and being that I was the type of person I would often want to put myself in those kind of situations, but it actually required a lot of effort having to be social and go out and hang out with people. Even though I am an inventor I still do enjoy that but it’s not my natural expression.

Sometimes I will be in that mood and if I’m in that mood, great, I’ll go with it. If I’m not in that mood, being able to just understand that my personality type likes to process things internally. I’m very driven constantly thinking about the future. We analyze every possible outcome and I’m often expelling a lot of brain power in my natural day-to-day. When it comes time for me to shut off, I like to be in my own environment, in my own surroundings with maybe just one or two or three people. I don’t like to be in big groups. That’s how I recharge.

It’s been such a liberating experience for me because I’d always struggled with being so social. That part was fantastic, I can work on the detailed stuff, I can smash out tasks but it takes a lot of energy for me to do that. It takes a lot of focus knowing that is not where I’m best orientated but then ensuring that I have people that are great at that around me. It allows me to focus on doing the things that I really enjoy, that I really excel at, that I really flourish at and then having the things that I’m not good at.

Having the other personality types take care of that stuff for me. While, the time that I’m putting in is still the same, the effort that I have to expel in that time is far less.

John: Yes, I understand completely.

All right, people, we do teach personality here at Influence Ecology and we teach a particular approach where what we’re dealing with is putting the right personality, in the right place in a transaction. We’re not a Myers-Briggs company, we’re not based on or focused on personality. I’m saying this for our listeners. We are a company that teaches a lot about a transaction and an aspect that is putting the right people in the right places. Tim for you in terms of your own transactional competence, what else did you learn or discover in your studies here?

Tim: This was probably the most valuable thing that I’ve seen in the business is, once you’ve been able to identify the personality type is having them in the right role. Having them in the right phase of the transaction. Very quickly once we started our study with Influence Ecology and learned how vital this was to being able to produce high value and low cost transactions, there was some things that we immediately changed. We had a couple of people that were in more of our customer relations, sales, that kind of team. We were able to identify that they would produce a personality type and we moved them from the the sales team roles into more of the administration role.

Their experience of their work life just went through the roof. They went from struggle and necessarily being able to produce the results that they were committed to into roles where they were able to do the things that they really enjoyed, that they were really good at and they really flourished. It was one of the things that we saw very quickly as our admin team. Even though we were aiming at actually utilizing this scenario probably in our sales area first, the admin team all got into place very very quickly. Our admin team are the foundation of our business. We can market and we can have clients come along and I can do my thing at the front of the room and lead to a couple 100 people and the sales team can look after them but once they become clients, there’s processes, there’s things that need to get done and our admin team really do take care of that.

They just went clunk very quickly and the level of productivity and the level of customer service, and the level of staff engagement just went through the roof in a very very short period of time and it was quite incredible how dramatic and how quickly that change happened. That was just without a doubt probably the single most valuable thing that we’ve seen. We’ve then been able to bring that to other areas of our associated businesses and other teams inside of Infinite Wealth as well as a whole, and we’ve seen the same. It took a little bit longer to get into those areas and they’re still areas that we’re continuing to develop ourselves in, it’s just been incredible the stark difference primarily in the cost of completing those transactions.

The level of business that we’re doing has pretty much stayed the same over the last three years, but the cost of completing those transactions has dramatically reduced business cash flows as well as the level of effort the people have to giving their jobs.

John: So great, we deal with training people to build highly valued low-cost transactions. Is there anything else to say about that equation especially since you train people in money?

Tim: In terms of cost, you could say money and the cash flows is just really one element of it. There’s also cost in terms of what is their job satisfaction. Maybe our bottom line is the same but if people are having to effort more or not necessarily enjoying their jobs, that’s also a cost that comes into play there. That’s something that we’ve seen a dramatic shift in as well. Then probably for us one of the things that we value very highly here is also the customer experience. Really our point difference compared to a lot of our competitors or similar people in the industry. I would suggest that one of the the biggest reasons for the the awards that we’ve won, the success that we’ve had in a business, the growth that we’ve had in the business is the customer experience.

In some areas of our businesses we were able to particularly associated with Infinite Wealth and that dramatic shift, we sure in the the admin team that the customers experience was just second to none. People just knew us as a company like no other because we we’re part of a growth, we have about five or six companies in total in the group Infinite Wealth is the biggest one, but in some of our support companies it’s only been more recently that we’ve been able to move those transactional orientation changes into those businesses. We’ve taken businesses where we had upset and dissatisfied clients primarily just because we had either the right people in the wrong roles, although they’re just the wrong people.

So being able to make those changes, we’ve seen dramatic shifts in our customer satisfaction in very short periods of time. Of course if you’ve got dissatisfied customers, well that’s a significant cost to our business.

John: It is great to speak to you and listen to your commitment to contribute to people, make their life better, improve their work situation your customers and so forth. It’s it sounds it’s a thread that runs through your entire business and it’s just great to hear.

Tim: Thank you John.

John: Yes, it’s fantastic.

Tim: Yes thanks.

John: Well, I mean it sounds you care a great deal about everyone’s experience no matter where they sit in your company and your customer. It sounds you’re just a guy that’s really committed that people have a great and satisfying life.

Tim: Yes thanks. We don’t always get it right but we certainly strive for that. We try and utilize every time that we don’t deliver. That is an opportunity to learn and get better.

John: It’s great. Well let’s just take a turn to the soapbox for this development because I want to give you the opportunity to speak about the flawed thinking that many people have about money. So what you think about that and how it’s flawed?

Tim: Yes, look, simply speaking people are completely naive about money, of while the stats that I have Australian-based I know that the statistics in the US, and for that matter many developed countries around the world are very very similar. What is coming down the pipeline for people is very very scary. I mean I know in Australia that 9.1% of Australians will actually end up self funding in retirement, which means 91% of people are going to be reliant on welfare to be able to survive in their retirement. What most people are hoping or to be able to survive on is what they call superannuation in Australia.

In the US it’s known as 401(K). A lot of people don’t realize why these systems were put in place. Essentially, it was put in place because about 30 years ago the governments figured out they were not going to be able to afford to provide pensions, and this is due to the baby boomer era, basically people got back from World War II and we had a population explosion. The majority of the population made up into most developed countries and now approaching retirement age, and the government simply do not have the tax revenue to continue paying pensions especially considering that people are living considerably longer than they ever were before.

We’ve got some statistics here in Australia that almost half of baby boomers expect that they’re going to have to work into their 70s and a quarter of baby boomers expect that they’re going to have to work into their 80s. Which is a pretty frightening prospect. Yet most of us, how we pretty much approach money is as long as we’re earning a good income and we can live a good lifestyle now, that’s pretty much all I think about. I don’t really think about the future. People really are naive about what is coming down the pipeline and what they’re going to need to be able to survive in a life of which isn’t reliant on a job.

What they’re going to need to accumulate to be able to provide them with that kind of passive income. That’s one of the major things that we really do with people in general. Just having them be aware of what is coming down the pipeline because the chances aren’t good. You need to do something and you can’t afford to wait, you need to do it now. Then I think the other thing that we really start to focus on is how did it get to be this way? Because Australia, we’re the seventh richest country in the world, when it comes to gross domestic product per capita.

We live in a very lucky country, how come the statistics are looking this way? Really what it is, is that what most people know about money is just fundamentally flawed. If I can give you an example.

John: Yes, please.

Tim: Probably one of the biggest things that really shocks people is we’re in Australia we have this thing called the Great Australian dream. I imagine it’s probably very similar in the US and maybe the great American dream is to live in it in your own home. We just have come to accept that this is once we’ve got a good job and we’re earning a decent income, that’s the thing that we should be doing. We should be buying a living in our own home, but when we actually look at the numbers, if in many cases, not in all cases, but it’s actually the biggest liability that most people will have.

It’s probably the single largest factor actually preventing them from being able to produce a lot where they’re going to have a passive income. That just really flies in the face of what people are taught and what people believe. In fact, The greatest range dream in Australia was a marketing campaign developed by the banks after World War II. We’ve been conned into believing that homeownership is the symbol of security and prosperity. We might go and take out a mortgage if I’m just going to just for round numbers, if we take out a mortgage for $100,000, what we’ve actually borrowed is more like $250,000.

Then what do we have to earn to repay that $250,000 based on Australian tax rate? You’d have to earn over $370,000 so that you can repay the $250,000 that you borrowed, to actually pay off the $100,000 mortgage that you took out. It’s a very very ineffective use of money and is primarily the thing holding most Australians back. I guess, the goal for most Australians, and I’m sure this is the same for Americans, as well is to work hard and pay the house off. Then in retirement, all they’ve got is their pension, and they’ve got a house paid off.

But if you’ve got no pension, even if you’ve got a house paid off, well, you can’t eat your house. What’s going to put food on the table? It’s just a really really floored way of thinking. Primarily and without getting into too much detail, the simple fact of the matter is that the overwhelming percentage of population is just completely naive about what they’re going to need to satisfy their life from a financial perspective. Then, of course, if you don’t have what you need financially, you’re just constantly left in a state of survival and agitation. Financial stress is the single largest cause of divorce in Australia.

John: It sounds like we live in the same country.


Tim: We pretty much do that. They often do say that Australia is, what is it? The 53rd or 52nd state of the US? Our economies are very closely linked.

John: Yea, absolutely. It’s not the great American dream. It’s just the American dream. The statistics are quite the same. All of those things are very much the same. Yes, it’s the same situation here.

Tim: Yes, probably the last thing I’ll just say just to wrap it up, as well is that is really probably the biggest flaw is this is that we’re so focused on income. Whether we’re working for someone else, we think that income is what’s going to set us up and it’s simply not. Even if you have your own business. A lot of businesses think their business is an asset. I actually think that’s a huge mistake. Unless your business produces an income, and you don’t ever need to do anything with it, it is not an asset. People need to use the income they’re generating.

Whether it be through their work, or whether it be through their business they have, and they need to be investing that in assets. The most truest forms of assets when it comes to things like property shares, superannuation, 401(K), managed funds, gold, it’s those assets that time has proven are the only things that are going to provide with a safe and reliable passive income. When it comes time for you to retire, we’ll just we’ll step back.

John: In the beginning journey, when you work with people, if you were going to give people a couple of takeaways here now, what my people begin to do, so they never do your program? What my people begin to do to move into a better state?

Tim: Probably the single most important thing is this, it is a concept that a lot of people are familiar with, it is a very very simple concept. Yet, I find it’s actually the hardest thing for people to do. That is pay yourself first. Now a lot of people think what I’m talking about when I say that is saving, that’s not what I mean? Essentially, what I mean is okay, yes, you may have worked out what you can conservatively afford to save every week, but that money needs to be coming out first, before any of your expenses before things like entertainment, things like that. It needs to be going into a place where you can’t access it.

Once again, if it’s somewhere that you can touch where you need to expel energy to not touch it. I don’t recommend that. I recommend going into an account where you don’t have a link to a card, you don’t have maybe internet banking access, I would go into an account that just can’t be touched. Then while this will become the fuel to build your investment engine, you then want to start investing that fill into other forms of assets. Like I said, like property, like shares, like managed funds, superannuation, gold, bonds, that kind of stuff. Such a simple concept.

The people that I see that master that, it normally takes around people around about six or eight weeks to master that are always, they’re 80% guaranteed to be successful in building their plans. Then the people that I see file always really just filed it to do that one simple thing. I think the second takeaway that I would really like to give people is that I think most people are naive about what actually makes a difference when it comes to reaching their goals. I think that’s whether we’re talking about financial or, whether it’s their health and fitness goals, or whether it’s their relationship goals.

I think we’re often convinced or we’re taught or we believe or we read that, there’s all these things out there that make a difference, like having the right positive mental attitude or being passionate or being committed or having the older knowledge. The reality is, is those things just simply do not make a difference. The only thing in life that actually makes a difference is taking action. It’s what you do or do not do. It doesn’t really matter how committed you are or how passionate you are or how positive you are or how much you know, unless you take action, it’s not going to make any difference for those areas that you committed to achieving.

But for analogy for a second, if we talk about an Olympic swimmer, it doesn’t really matter whether the Olympic swimmer has the right attitude. It doesn’t really matter whether they’ve been taught by the best swimmer in history, what matters is whether they get up at 4:00 AM every morning and go to the pool and swim 100 laps.

John: Couldn’t agree more. Could not agree more. All right? Well, Tim, I want to find out if there’s anything else that you’d like to say, because I’m asking questions, but there may be something on your mind you’d like to say here. Is there anything else for you

Tim: I think the last thing is just people think success, particularly financially is some kind of elusive achievement. It’s incredible how easy it can be once you start taking action and once you have the right guidance. That would obviously be from someone who has achieved it themselves listen to people who are where you want to be not to, not to others. If you do aspire to making a difference to the world, if you do aspire to having a particular iconic car or a particular house, it’s way easier than you think. Life is a very different thing when you have that autonomy, the ability to give hundreds of thousands of bills to charity.

Or the ability to travel the world and experience things that most people would never dream of. It really is quite simple. Don’t be naive about what it’s going to take to get there. That basically requires taking the action and it’s going to be rigorous action over a reasonable period of time. If people want it, you can have it. Just don’t be naive about what you’re going to do, what you’re going to need to do to have it.

John: All right, very good. Take a minute, we’re going to put your links into the show notes. With Tim, take a moment and tell people how they can contact you.

Tim: I think the best thing is just getting on the website, Either that or you can find us on Facebook at the Infinite Wealth Facebook page, either one is a good way to contact us. There’s plenty of valuable information, testimonials and case studies regarding clients, the ability to find out where and when our events are on the website. Then of course, there’s just heaps of valuable information on the Facebook page.

We regularly post clear and simple action plans and put them in place as well as valuable articles about the global economy and what people should be thinking about. That’s the two best areas to contact us and get the most value out of what it is that we offer.

John: Great. Tim, thank you so very much for taking the time to be with us today. It was a pleasure speaking to you all.

Tim: Well, thanks, John. I really appreciate you having me on the show and it’s just great to spend any time that I get to spend with you.

John: Likewise. As I said, today I offered a talk by co-founder Kirkland Tibbles from one of our public webinars titled Personality and the Transactional approach. This approach gives each of us new ways to work more efficiently with four differing personality types. This is the foundation what Tim spoke about and how his company changed the way they do business. To set you up, as we teach it, there are four personality types, inventors, performers, producers, and judges. You can think of them in a circular relay race where they hand-off to one another and around and around and around it goes. Here’s the talk.

Kirkland Tibbels: These are those four styles laid upon a transaction cycle. We say that transactions occur in cycle. There are a series of exchanges that occur at particular times in a cycle. We’re going to start just for illustrative purposes by identifying these particular styles in a particular way. We’re going to give them a name and the names that we use here at Influence Ecology are these, inventor, performer, producer, and judge. The inventor is the person who adheres to the philosophies of subjectivism and idealism. They see possibilities for how to live in a world and they think about future consequences. They are idea and future.

The performer is a constructivist. They invent narratives along the way. You could say, they make it a best they go and that’s not completely inaccurate. In the right constructs and in the right constraints, the performer is necessary to construct the narratives that bring all of those possibilities into the social world and available to work. They are present, they are in the moment, and they are purely relationship-driven, they are performers. Those two personalities tend to live on a more subjective side of the transaction cycle.

If anything is going to get done, transaction has got to reach a world of what we will call reality for this purpose or an objective domain. The producer is what we call this particular style, work in action, and a short-term basis means and goals, black and white world, things are what they are. Water is wet. In fact, rocks are hard. A producer is a person who makes sure the work gets done and brings a kind of structural reality to all of those ideas for all of those people that are now involved in the transaction, but it’s often the case, work is no fun.

You can see how this transaction begins to move in a particular way with a particular mood and attitude. Certain characteristics are demonstrated over here that are not in the hemisphere of the inventor and the performer. Then even more critical and even more judgemental is the skeptic. The one who needs evidence, who wants to know the facts, who looks to the past to determine whether or not something is real. We call that skeptic, that very important personality, that set of characteristics, a judge.

Recently, in our most advanced program, we were in a dialog about how to deal with these personalities and what’s the most dangerous piece about locking them in. I’m going to talk about that. Then we got into something brand new that we’ve never demonstrated in this discourse before. I’ll do that next. These are the warning signs for how to deal with these personalities, things you do not want to do. The next conversation will be the things that you do want to do. These are the things that you do not want to do. With an inventor, you never want to ever reveal that you know that they don’t know and you damn sure better not do it in public.

An inventor will tell you quietly– Well, probably not tell you, but you should know this. If they were to tell you, this is what they would say, “If you know I don’t know, I will die.” They need to know and more importantly, they need to know that you know that they know where they’re going in the future, that they’ve got this thing and that they know. When you deal with an inventor, the key phrase is, “I know you probably know this, but–” and you’ll be fine. With the performer, that performer would whisper the secret in your ear and this would be it, “Never tell me what to do.

Mind your manners and be respectful and I’ll give you the shirt off my back. Tell me you want it and I’ll have yours before the end of the day. Never tell me what to do.” Give them freedom and flexibility and never tell them what to do, transact with them. Remember, everything is just a constructive narrative. If you do that, you’ll be in great shape and you won’t ever have to worry about your performer. The problem is too many of you, managers, try to micromanage the personality that lives in maybe land, who needs a certain kind of flexibility.

Here’s what a producer will tell you, “If I’m not included, you might as well kill me.” Producers must be included. Why? Because they know they have to come in and do all the work. They must be included. If you leave your producer out of your big plans inventor and you expect them just to come in and do the work, you’re in serious trouble. If you want happiness and harmony, include them. Include them in your planning, include them in your strategies, include them in your tactics, and give them an opportunity to participate especially when you’re designing the work in action.

Finally, a judge will tell you, “I don’t want to decide. I just want to judge yours. If I have to decide, it will kill me,” a judge would say. “If I have to decide, it will kill me.” Finally, this piece which we have never revealed. This is how you deal with the world and the domains of these personalities. With the inventor, the thing to do is to build future about them. Build a future. That means you’re going to have to take a little bit of time and think about how to think about them, how will the offer that you are making in the marketplace build over time a future that is about them.

Don’t get bent out of shape that they ought to be some other way. Don’t get bent out of shape that they’re egotistical and it’s got to be all about them. No, make it about them. Make it about them and get wealthy in the process. There’s not enough room for you and the inventor when it comes to undertaking credit so make it about them and you’ll be fine. It takes some time to build a future. In your narratives, what you must be concentrating and talking about is the future and it’s got to be about them. For the performer, the performer will say, “Let’s build a community and make me a hero with our people.”

If you want to win with performers, you want to build communities around them, it’s a vocal environment and make them beloved in that community. Demonstrate the recognition and respect required for building those relationships, honor that community and that performer will take you straight to the bank. You’ll have more people willing to work hard loyally for you and your cost that you’re building a community around and make that hero beloved. For producers, this one ought to be a blessing for everybody who’s listening on this call, especially if you’re anything but a producer.

All producers want is for you to tell them exactly what you want to build and let them build it and they will. Include them in your dreams. Include them in your hopes. Tell them exactly what you need and want to make you happy and to reach the aims that you have for the enterprise and the producer will loyally build that with everything they’ve got and they know how to do it, but you got to let them do it. You can’t micromanage them so much that they have no room and time to build. They’re fabricators of the world we live in. Let them build it.

Then finally, with judges, you got to learn how to build the path with them which means you just simply cannot walk into the world of a judge and expect them to give you any credit at all. Don’t expect too. Start immediately with the understanding that it’s going to take some time, but until you have a path with that judge, don’t count on it. Be prepared for criticism, be prepared for all kinds of evaluations, and critiques and assessments but over time and it won’t take long, if you demonstrate and show them that you can do it, you’ll have a nice past of evidence and results to build on and stay true to that.

Don’t take their no’s, just hard edge no’s and build the past. When you have a dialogue with the judge, build a past in the dialogue, demonstrate the evidence that you can do what you said you’re going to do and then by all means, do it or exceed it. Demonstrate competence, know that they’re all about standards and you’ll build a past with a judge and they will keep you out of trouble and you can take them to the bank.


[00:51:56] John: In our next episode, we feature an interview with Peter Burggraf, the Vice-President of Business Development at Q2 Business Capital in Chicago, Illinois.

[00:52:05] Peter: I don’t need the news, I don’t want to pay attention to the news. It’s out there, it’s not important to me, but what I soon realized is there are so many things that are happening on a daily basis that are driving how our economy works and how people actually think and how people are functioning amongst each other. That it’s very important to study it. Not in a form of an academics study but just paying attention. So many things happen in the current that are driven by what we do today and a lot of times there are certain things that I agree with, and then there’s a lot of things that I questioned or disagree with.

I never used to think that way, because it’s so easy for us to hear, “Okay, we’re in a presidential election and XYZ said so and so.” All of a sudden everyone is out talking about what they just heard on the news. The questions that I asked is, how factual that statement and what’s the point of reference and why is that even important, who’s the source of that information and a lot of times when you start question the questions, people have no answer.

John: If you enjoyed this episode, and would like to share with others, you can find it and share it from our website at You can also find this on iTunes to subscribe. We’d love to know what you think, so please take a moment and offer us a review. Thank you for another great episode of the Influence Ecology podcast. I’m your host, John Patterson. I’d like to thank our guest for a great interview.

In our show notes, you’ll find links to connect with them and all the links to website books for special downloads mentioned in this podcast. This podcast is made possible by the brilliant work of the Influence Ecology staff, mentors and members around the world. We’re grateful for co-founder, Kirkland Tibbels and his 30 plus years of specialized study and practice that make all this possible. Finally, thanks for our producer Jason Kelley. Editing in music by Bellringer productions, music supervisors Dashley Lecorps and Marcus Bell.

The Influence Ecology Podcast is produced by Influence Ecology, LLC in Ventura, California. This episode was recorded April 8th, 2018 and was produced by John Patterson and Jason Kelly. This program is made possible through the assistance of the Influence Ecology faculty, mentors, and students around the world. We’re grateful for Co-founder Kirkland Tibbels and his 30+ years of specialized study in the philosophy of Transactionalism and the fundamentals of Transactional Competence.

This episode includes contributions by Karal Gregory and Tyson Crandall. For this episode, the sound design and editing are by Jason Kelley. The podcast theme is by Chris Standring and titled ‘Fast Train to Everywhere.’ You can subscribe to the Influence Ecology Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn or via email at

If you haven’t yet offered a rating or review, I ask that you take a moment go to iTunes or your podcast app and let us know what you think. This helps us more than you know.

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Influence Ecology is the leading business education specializing in Transactional Competence, having published and contributed to the only comprehensive text on the subject, Transactionalism: An Historic and Interpretive Study by Trevor J. Phillips. Co-Founder Kirkland Tibbels has authored more than 500 papers on the subject, study, and discipline of transactional competence and is a sought-after lecturer at universities, major corporations, and civic organizations around the world. 

Influence Ecology’s curriculum includes conferences, webinars, online tools, podcasts, and mentorship utilized by men and women in over seventy countries around the world. Our membership includes an international assembly of accomplished professionals, faculty, and peers from a variety of countries, industries, and cultures.