• Suzanne Pool, The Influence Ecology Podcast, Transactional Competence, Transactionalism

Knowing Requires Doing and Fitness Requires Practice with Suzanne Pool

To develop our fitness to transact effectively, we must practice.

For example, consider how we get competent at swimming. We could read about it, study it, watch videos, discuss it, and perhaps even practice on dry land and yet still we wouldn’t know swimming until we got into the water and tested our understanding through action. Furthermore, our fitness to swim could not be developed in a single attempt.

For competence, knowing requires doing and fitness requires practice.

We would never consider that we know how to swim or are fit to swim until we get in the water. Yet, in our experience, many people claim to know things they have never themselves done, practiced, or applied. Often, we claim to know a topic we’ve merely read in a book or seen online. In fact, our collective wisdom allows us to share in a kind of knowledge illusion, where we all think we know more than we actually do and rarely inventory how little we truly understand.

The recent Gladwellian phrase of “putting in your 10,000 hours” refers to this aspect of this discourse on practice: the notion that “talent” and specialized ability, expertise, and knowledge are as much a function of the environment as they are practice—a lot of deliberate practice.

Deliberate practice shapes the experience that in turn shapes the perception of new opportunities. Simply put, you do not and cannot see the same tennis ball serve as someone who has deliberately practiced the ability and expertise to return thousands of serves.

Suzanne Pool is a Cambridge grad developed her early career as an intellectual property lawyer working for large and small media organizations across London. She says: “did well financially but I was fat, unfit and bored with life.”

When she began our programs, she realized that she didn’t understand everything that was being taught – and had to consider her arrogance in relation to learning. She started applying deliberate practice to her habits and lost 70lbs in 18 months, grew a business in a new field and internationally, developed new partnerships. She states: “Having broken through my own barren, celibate, career-dominated life of my 30s – to living a fulfilling, adventurous and seriously fun (in all ways!) life in her 40s, I show her clients it is possible to grasp life by the horns, conquer their fears and live life as a daring adventure – no matter their age, or where you live in the world!”

Suzanne now owns a consultancy for Women’s Sexual Empowerment and supports women in their 30s, 40s and beyond – to have the most mind-blowing sex and enjoyment of their lives! As she says “You want your orgasm back – And it’s been missing for more than a decade?” Speak to Suzanne Pool.

Here’s the interview:

Below you’ll find a transcript of this podcast episode that has been edited for your reading pleasure. You’ll also see links at the bottom of this post where you can find more information on the people and ideas mentioned in the episode.

by John Patterson
Produced by: John Patterson & Tyson Crandall

“We live in a society that rewards overnight success, but we forget how much those people who’ve had overnight success have put in to being in that position. And probably it was many, many years of effort, and toil, and sweat and tears. And actually, the success is in having put in that effort.”

Suzanne Pool: Hello, John. My name is Suzanne Pool. I live in London, in the United Kingdom. I am now a coach for women, I empower women to enjoy sex in particular. In my former life, I was an intellectual property lawyer in the media industry, but I’ve undergone a major career transition in the past two or three years. As I said, I live in London. I am a born and bred Londoner. And I have studied at very well-known universities around the world, including Cambridge where I have a degree in history. And as I said, I was a lawyer for about 15 years in the media industry before I changed career. I am in my mid-40s, and I’ve been participating in the work of Influence Ecology for approximately two years at the time of recording. And I’m forever grateful for having encountered the organization.

John Patterson: There are a few things, by the way, you sent us some notes, and one thing that I often do is take a look at the journey that’s unique to you and perhaps there are things about your story that might be quite beneficial to people. As you know, and I think you’ve listened to many podcasts, many people have spoken on personality. Many people have spoken on some common kinds of things, but you bring up something that I just love talking about, because I think it is an often underutilized aspect of people’s accomplishing amazing things, and that is habits and practices. And so I want to get to that in just a minute because I think it’s an important piece. But before we do, it’s always useful for people to have a sense of you prior to Influence Ecology and what was life like? What were you dealing with? Describe Suzanne Pool of what, two or three years ago, if you would.

Suzanne: Yes. Well, so as I said in my introduction, I’ve gone through quite a major career transition in the past two or three years, and I would say that my happening upon Influence Ecology happened about the same time that that career transition… It had already begun before I came across Influence Ecology, but I was going through a transition. So at the end of 2016, and currently we’re in early 2019, I had been laid off from my job as a lawyer for a telecoms company and my father had passed away. So I had been through two very significant major life-changing events simultaneously. And up to that point, I had been quite a successful intellectual property and media lawyer in London working for some of the very largest companies in that sector. If I named them, almost certainly people listening to this would have heard of, I’m not going to say the names but they are very well known organizations.

But I found myself at the beginning of 2017 without a job, but also with needing to administer my father’s estate and support my brother and other family members and myself through that process of grieving for my father, and also not having employment. So I was left with a question of, “Well, what do I do now?” I’d been practicing as a lawyer for about 15 years, as I said, and it was great, and I was financially successful, and it was a good career, but I was a bit bored. And so I was looking for a new challenge, and at the same time, Influence Ecology was introduced to me. And the notion of transactional competence came into my parlance. I didn’t really know what it meant. And I can talk about what that does mean if you’d like but I think you’re better at that than I am. I was a transactional lawyer. That’s what I’d done. I’d negotiated contracts for my entire career. So transaction was something that I was very familiar with.

Influence Ecology had me think about transacting in a different way, and that spoke to curiosity for me around how I wanted to show up in the world. Which brings me to my new career, which I’ve had for about 18 months now, around empowering women and coaching women, really to have fulfilling lives, but in particular amazing relationships and amazing sexual relationships.

John: And when you first were introduced to Influence Ecology, did someone introduce it to you as, did they say the words transactional competence? Did they say anything like that? Did you happen to go, “Oh, yeah, I’m good. I’m good. I know transactions.” What attracted you to it? Or what was the thing that you heard that kind of had you go, “I should check this thing out.”

Suzanne: Yes. I can speak directly to that. So I was introduced to it by a friend of mine, Liz Marley. I’d known her for about 13 or 14 years at the time. I hadn’t seen her for a while, but she was somebody that I knew well and whose opinion I respected. And she emailed me quite randomly having seen some posts on Facebook, where I was sharing about having been made redundant and the situation with my father. She offered me an opening for a conversation, I would say, about different things and ideas that she had come across. And also just an opportunity to really talk and create a space for communication, which I appreciated. And one of the things that she introduced me to was Influence Ecology and really all she did was sent me a link to the website. She didn’t actually say anything specifically about it, other than, “You might be interested in this.” With a link. And she had participated in the fundamentals of transaction course, and I clicked on the link and there was the video of Kirkland Tibbels, our co-founder, speaking about ambitious adult and thriving in a really uncertain world, I would say.

What was said in the webinar about, well, frankly, working less, making more, essentially having more fun, really spoke to me. I can hear goals that I had for my life being articulated in what it was that I heard Kirkland talk about. So then I got in touch with Drew, and before I’d even had the appointment with Drew I was like, “Well, I want to apply.” And I have to confess I am a little bit arrogant. So when I say I wanted to apply, for me, that was given that then I would be accepted. I’m grateful that I was because here we are two years later.

John: So in everyone’s journey, there’s your life before, there’s sort of what happens when you’ve start studying with us, you know, where you discover you’re naive, or perhaps you discover a little conceit, or ego, or naivety, whatever the case may be and you began to perhaps discover where. While you may have thought you were transactional and competent, especially with what you did in your previous career, how did you begin to discover that you were naive about your own transactional competence?

Suzanne: Yeah, so transacting was something that I was very familiar with and the act of negotiating contracts. And so there was much of the technology in the work that was quite familiar to me, in terms of the articulation of it, but I think one of the things that I found most curious was very early on in fundamentals, you speak about the 13 steps of transacting. And I remember reading the 13 steps, and I related to my… I still do relate to myself this way, but I related to myself as someone who picks things up very quickly. So I can read something and really understand it on the first go, because I’ve trained to do that over 20 years. And I found myself having to reread this document several times and looking at the words thinking, “I know what each one of those words means, but I really don’t understand what that entire sentence means.” That was really out of my comprehension. You could say I was naive, I was naive to this language and articulation that I just didn’t understand, and I didn’t know what to do with that. So I was partly agitated by it. It sort of upset me slightly. But also, I was excited by it because I’d become quite complacent in my career, and I think what I was looking for with something that fired my intellectual brain.

John: Tell us a little bit about some of the results or outcomes of this. And in your notes, you really did say a few things about relationships, habits and practices, and commitment and consistency. And I think those are important bets distinctly but together their makeup is something rather remarkable. So just tell us a little bit about how those three things were either impacted, perhaps relationships were impacted or how those three things assisted you in what’s happened now?

Suzanne: All of life now is really inconceivably different from how it was two or three years ago. I travel the world at least once a month. I spend more time away from my home than I do at home. I think most critically, one of the outcomes that happened after my father passed away was that my brother came to live with me. And that was supposed to only last for six months. At the time of recording, it’s been two years. And there was no way that in 2017, my brother and I could possibly have conceived of living together for two years amicably, let alone actually, and we do live together amicably. Plus, I’ve lost 70 pounds in weight in the last 18 months, so I’ve lost about five dress sizes. I am a regular attendee at a strength training gym, and I’ve got the records for the gym in weightlifting, for women. And my business is growing in a way that I really didn’t expect. I’m sought of after to speak, I’m invited to participate in podcasts like this one, but others and I am offered large scale stages to speak on. So people know me and I am developing a reputation in my new career.

And I attribute all of that down to the work that I’ve done with Influence Ecology. And I think the thing that you speak to about relationships and commitment and consistency is the thing that has really transformed for me in my work with Influence Ecology, in terms of understanding that the smallest detail makes a difference, when repeated, consistently. Done once, it might produce the result, but if you want that result to happen over time, then you need to repeat that pattern over and over again. And what I used to do before Influence Ecology was I would throw the baby out with the bathwater. So I had a history of yo-yo dieting as an example, where I’ve lost pounds of weight many times. But I would reach my goal, and then I would kind of go, “Well, I don’t need to do anything else.” And then over a short amount of time, the weight would creep back on because I’m… Not even creep back on but pile back on because I didn’t ever follow the consistent patterns that were required to maintain that weight loss. And I didn’t know how to do that.

And what I’ve learned with Influence Ecology is to establish a foundation for myself. So what are the practices that really make a difference to my life every day? For those I can say getting up early in the morning. So usually around or before 6:00 AM in the morning, what to eat each day, how to exercise, and then rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater when something stops working, because things do stop working, they don’t go quite the way that I want them to go all the time. Looking at what are the dials that I’ve turned? What are the things the habits that I know work, that I’m not necessarily following as consistently as I want to, and then putting them back in? Or, how can I challenge myself to the next level in the habits that I have? So weight training is a really good example of that.

The way to progress in weight training is to put more weight on the bar. But most people don’t do that, they do more reps, which does produce a result. But I’ve learned that going to the gym, wherever I am in the world is fundamental not only to my physical well-being, but also my mental state, makes a difference to how I feel, and my ability to do work. And if I want to improve, challenge myself, so lift more. Even if it’s just one or two pounds more, lift more, but do the work. It’s the same with my business development, in terms of contacting people, maintaining relationships, making sure that I follow up. Working with people in my team, writing, I’m writing a book. And the way that that is moving forward is because I write every day. And I just didn’t know that before. I really didn’t.

John: I happen to be working on something right now for another program. And it was up in front of me this morning and yesterday and I’m doing some writing on this, but I’ll read a part of it. It says the recent Gladwellian phrase of putting in your 10,000 hours refers to this aspect of practice, the notion that talent and specialized ability, expertise, and knowledge are as much a function of the environment as they are practice, a lot of deliberate practice. Deliberate practice shapes the experience that in turn shapes the perception of new opportunities. Simply put, you do not and cannot see the same tennis ball serve as someone who has deliberately practiced the ability and expertise to return thousands of serves. And there is a kind of knowing, a kind of experience that arises through the practice of practicing. And I hear you talking about fundamentally the practice, if you will, of developing practices, and attending to your practices, and continuing to validate, modify your practices in accordance with your aims. First, anything you want to say about that. And then second, I’m going to ask you, what does that have to do with transactional competence? Because it sounds like something separate, right? So first, anything you want to say? And secondly, what does that have to do with transactional competence?

Suzanne: Yeah. The first thing that I would say about practice for practice sake, is that that in itself is revolutionary to me. So I practice yoga, and I have practiced yoga for a long time, very sporadically. But in the last two years, I’ve become very consistent with my yoga practice, and it gets better because I practice every day. And the creator of the system that I practice, which is Ashtanga Yoga, Pattabhi Jois said, it’s 99% practice, 1% theory. And so I think that speaks to the Gladwell comment. Yes, it has lots of benefits to me, but really, I practice because I practice. And the discipline of that is very satisfying.

I think that is what I would say about transactional competence. The practice of practice for the sake of it creates a trust in myself, a relationship that I have with myself for reliability, and steadfastness that enables me to engage in conversations and relationships with people that I might not otherwise have had, because I felt too flimsy in them. So I can be more demanding of other people, because I know that I’m demanding that of myself. And it also creates a flexibility, which is surprising, because practice takes discipline, which often is seen as rigid. But actually, in the having clarity for myself about what my boundaries are with my time, in particular around, I practice this, I do this exercise, I lift these weights. In having that clarity, I can then afford others space to create for themselves. It creates a clarity with me. That means other people can be clearer for themselves. And again, I didn’t know that.

I’ve always thought that I’m a lawyer, I understand obligation. I thought I knew what a person of integrity is. And actually, that required quite rigorous examination. That isn’t over, by the way, like I continue to engage in the inquiry of what is it to be someone who engages in deliberate practice, for the sake of it. That in itself is an interesting inquiry, in that I used to think deliberate practice was to accomplish a goal. And it’s very difficult to accomplish a goal without deliberate practice. But I think the beauty of deliberate practice is the deliberate practice, not the accomplishment of the goal. I think the Gladwell comment again spoke of this, where there’s innate talent, where we’re good at things because we said we’re good at things, and you don’t actually have to do any work to become good at them. And the reality is that a virtuoso musician is a virtuoso musician, because of the virtuoso, and they’ve practiced a lot to get like, probably way more than the 10,000 hours, Malcolm Gladwell speaks to. To become the virtuoso, that has them be the sought-after concert performer that they now are.

And it’s the same, so you’re not going to walk into a room of 10,000 people and be able to deliver an inspiring motivating speech that rouses them on your first go, it just isn’t going to happen. You need to rehearse and rehearse and rehearse and refine and refine and check out what you’re saying, and do it again, and throw it away and bring it back. We live in a society that really looks to instant gratification and satisfaction of need, immediately that need comes to the surface. And that will satiate a desire to eat a chocolate bar, but it won’t have you cross the finishing line in a marathon. And it won’t have you create a successful business. And it won’t have you get out of debt if you’re in significant debt.

We live in a society that rewards overnight success. But we forget how much those people who’ve had overnight success have put in to being in that position. And probably it was many, many years of effort, and toil, and sweat and tears. And actually, the success is in having put in that effort.

John: I think it’s worth mentioning, this is the year of ambition for Influence Ecology. In other words, this is you could say the year where what we said at our global conference in January of 2019, was we challenged people to develop a plan for some ambitious aim. In other words, an aim that is difficult to achieve. What we’ve been finding is that people are experiencing that when you attempt to accomplish something that’s difficult to achieve, your inspiration to accomplish that aim, if you will, goes up and down. I myself have been in some of the worst moods I’ve been in a while because I’m finding my incompetence, or my inability, or my lack of fitness for those things I seek to accomplish this year below par. They’re not where they need to be for me to accomplish those aims. So, what do I do? Well, I practice, and I practice, and I practice, and I practice, and I practice, and I practice. And I’m finding myself developing fitness in ways that I never imagined. So anything else you want to say to the topic of fitness and practice and habits?

Suzanne: I think you’ve summed it up really, really well. All I’d say is that in reference to the ambitious aim, what I’ve really learned is that in fulfilling an ambition, you have to do some work, and it requires deliberate practice, and just having the ambition isn’t sufficient.

“What I’ve really learned is that in fulfilling an ambition, you have to do some work, and it requires deliberate practice, and just having the ambition isn’t sufficient.”

John: I’m very happy that you’re now speaking in front of people. You’re quite, eloquent, authoritative, and you’re a rare combination of those things, and a commitment that people, and particularly women, I think that your specific customer, experience as you say, mind-blowing sex and enjoyment in their lives. And so I would expect if we investigated a little bit that you find that’s not happening. People might be experiencing quite the opposite, or perhaps they… You could say whether or not their concerns, issues, body image, who knows whatever goes on, where someone doesn’t allow themselves to enjoy sex, or whatever? I’m not the expert on this as you’re. So I just want to turn our attention to this, as I know it’s titillating, and I know it often gets a smile from people whenever we talk about it at a conference. But I find what you do to be an important thing for someone that probably has a reach into so many areas of their lives. So I want to let you talk about what you do a little bit.

Suzanne: Thank you, John. My personal belief is that having a fulfilling sex life is really a foundation for having a fulfilling life in all aspects, like you just said, at the end there. So when you are experiencing an intimate connection with another, usually your partner, then there’s a freedom that comes from that, that allows for more joy to be expressed, and freedom to be expressed and experienced in life. And it is sadly the case that not only do we not experience that level of connection and intimacy with another, but we just all ready don’t talk about that we’re not experiencing it either. So there’s a notion that we see Hollywood movies, where it looks like a couple are riding off into the sunset happily ever after, and at the same time, they’re jumping into bed with each other and ripping each other’s clothes off. And most people are looking at the screen and wondering why they don’t have that. And what I would say about that is that, well, they might not want to have that. And actually, they probably don’t want to have that because that’s fiction, it’s a movie.

But having a really beautiful, intimate, close, loving connection with a partner or another human being, allows for someone to see you in a way that we no longer have to hide ourselves from who we truly are. And when we stop hiding ourselves from being who we truly are, that’s when you can have that level of connection. So what I find amazing about the work that I do is the symbiotic relationship of allowing someone to see you, because you’re seeing yourself for the first time, and you’ve become okay with who you are, to allow someone to see you. And it speaks to the flexibility that I spoke of earlier, which is having open, transparent, clear relationships, in all aspects, in sexual relationships, in business relationships, in familial relationships, in friendships, makes things easier and I think more fun.

John: You mentioned before that you are being invited to speak. Is there a particular topic you’re invited to speak on? Are people asking you to talk about this generally? Or is there something you tend to address when you go to talk?

Suzanne: This subject that I most usually speak about is women in the 40s and 50s, who feel like their sex life is passing… well, their life is really starting to pass them by. They’re somewhat consigned to the scrap heap of society, their children are getting older, they’re in school, or heading to university, and they’re moving towards menopause or going through menopause. And that is a time of life when women start to feel like their function as women has dried up, for want of a better word. And what I speak about is that it isn’t the end of life. And I offer some ways to bring the sexy back if you like, and have more fun, because there’s no reason at all that we shouldn’t enjoy healthy sex lives and healthy relationships all the way through to the end of life. And they certainly don’t need to stop when we hit 40.

John: Anything else that you would like to say?

Suzanne: I just express gratitude really for and appreciation for you and Professor Tibbels, as I like to call him in making Influence Ecology and transactional competence available in the world. I think it provides a unique platform for communication and relating with people, whether it be in business or in other areas of life. I know that Influence Ecology speaks particularly to business. It’s intellectually stimulating and challenging in a way that I’ve never encountered before, and I’m grateful for that. And the opportunity to come and interact with amazing people that I have lots of fun with, from all around the world is really great at conference. So I look forward to being with you guys in the future. And yeah, thank you, is what I’d say.



In this episode, we include a small segment from our membership program webinar, where we talk about knowing and deliberate practice. This includes contributions from members, Maura O’Flynn, and Jennifer Judy.

John Patterson: There’s a few things that I want to talk about in terms of deliberate practice and how it’s relevant. So one thing for sure, is we’ve said this in a variety of ways throughout our programs, and that is that knowing requires doing. I think what I’d like to do here is I want to work with somebody. So if somebody like to work with me a little bit, then raise your hand carry on, I’m going to have you call on someone for me. If you would, please raise your hand, and I invite you to participate with me.

Karie Kohn: All right. We have one hand out. How about Maura O’Flynn?

John: Okay, great. All right, Maura.

Maura O’Flynn: Okay.

John: How are you?

Maura: I am really good. Thank you, John. How are you?

John: I’m good. I’m good. So do this for me. So we’re going to study this for just a second, then we’re going to move on to studying this. I’m going to have you read it. We’re going to ask some things about it. Everybody else listening, to read this along with Maura and I and study this, and I invite you to place your ego or hubris aside, make sure that you’re here to study. Okay? So Maura, please, if you would read this from the top?

Maura: Great. Knowing requires doing. To develop our fitness to transact effectively, we must practice. Application is the act of purposefully and intentionally putting into practice that which we have come to understand. For example, consider how we get competent at swimming. We could read about it, study it, watch videos, discuss it and perhaps even practice on dry land. And yet still, we wouldn’t know swimming until we got into the water and tested our understanding through action. Furthermore, our fitness to swim cannot be developed in a single attempt. For confidence, knowing requires doing and fitness requires practice.

John: Good. So, what do hear in all that?

Maura: I really love the analogy. It’s sort of like the bicycle, but it’s even better because it’s swimming in water, because you could drown if you don’t know what you’re doing. And we act sometimes, like if we know something, knowing everything. And particularly for me, my ambitious aim is about my health and a lot of weight loss, and I know lots about that. But knowing and doing something are very different, and even thinking that I know and starting to do the things I know, don’t even show up the same in practice.

John: What about your fitness? Let’s say Maura, you were fit to swim five years ago, but you haven’t been in the water?

Maura: Yeah, we think just like someone says… Yeah, just like riding a bike. Well, let me assure you, I actually had that experience. I went to Hawaii last year. And I do love to swim and I can swim. But I noticed it was definitely different, because it had been a few years and I can… Definitely I’m not drowning I can get around, but swimming like to actually, like laps, that is very different than not dog paddling. And just because I knew it, and I was a great swimmer, let’s say when I was much younger, it’s not the same. And it’s not just the body, it’s also your you brain, how it works, it’s just different.

John: You’re addressing something, I think some people, I think generally you and I are naive to or perhaps we have some hubris about, which is that our fitness is always in decline. The fitness is the kind of skill ability, practice competence that is developed. And if I’m increasing my fitness to reach an aim, and I’m working on that fitness, I’m developing that fitness, and maybe on a scale of one to five, we’re just going to call it that for the sake of some rating. Maybe I have moved from a one to a two, now I’m at a level of three, I feel pretty good because I’m at a level of three in terms of some scale of fitness, I start to go to work on level of four. But now, you know I’m certainly a bit cocky, and I feel good, feel like I’m accomplishing something. So I stop practicing, I stop doing the work that I was doing before. And I don’t know it, but typically my fitness then slips backwards. And it might slip back to a three or a two. But lo and behold the hubris, I do the thing that I’ve known for a long time, or I’ve already demonstrated that, and then find myself unfit. Often a bit taken aback or surprised, by the way which fitness just simply declines.

I’m going to go to Jennifer Judy. I’ve got some other hands too. Thanks. Keep your hands up, guys. I have some more questions here. Jennifer, please. Anything else you want to cover be to this or ask?

Jennifer Judy: Well, the thing I would say is, I’ve transformed my physical fitness over the last 15 months, like really profoundly. And the thing it took for me was an extraordinary concentration. And the very first thing I had to do was start acting like I didn’t know what I was doing. And as background, most people here won’t know this, but I’ve been on a magazine cover in a bikini as a bodybuilder. So the opportunity that offered for hubris and thinking I knew how to do it was hilarious, because my doing that 15 years ago had zero relationship to the body I’ve got now. And at the time, I had a personal trainer who swore to me, “You are really always getting better, or always getting worse.” And I know I was kind of cocky about that, and I actually got that. I think I hear you saying that too. Really, and truly, those are the only options. Physical beings don’t stay the same, we’re not really made for that. So your two opportunities are just picking which direction you’re going.

John: That’s very good. Good. And then Jennifer, you know this thing about we wouldn’t know swimming until we got in the water, I wanted to take the moment to make a point about this environment called the water. Because, look, each of us knows practice or perhaps we know study. We even see it with some of our really, really smart folks here to Influence Ecology. They study on papers. They’re real intent about studying for a long time. They’re proud of it, “I studied for 20 hours.” Or whatever they may say, “And I wrote that thing out so carefully. And I wrote it out. It’s there, I’ve written it, I’ve read it, I’ve studied it and watched it.” But then we say, “Well, how many invitations did you make,” for example? “Oh, well, none. I’m just…” And I appreciate this study, by the way, I really do. But until we get in the water, whatever that water may be. And this is just meant to be an example of an environment where we must address our fitness in the environment in which it occurs. So anything you want to say about this and you’re done?

Jennifer: Oh, I could go on. And one of the conversations I have with people is people who are like, “Yeah, I tried dieting, you know I gave it two weeks, and I didn’t lose any weight and I gave up.” As background, and I really thought I knew what I was doing right and like the things that worked 15 years ago didn’t work now. So I actually had to fit to do things that didn’t produce the result I was after, but moved me in the right direction. It took like four months of work, which included a lot of failing at like what I thought I needed to do. For instance, giving up refined sugar was early on, and I know that’s not a thing for everybody, but it was for me. And there are so many opportunities to fail at that. But until you get in and start failing and failing and failing, and working at like, “Well, what new habits am I going to build? And what’s the stuff I’ve tried, that’s not working?” I’m a bit of a data geek and I collected an extraordinary amount of data. So when people are like, “Well, you should be able to eat this.” And I’m like, “Well, thank you for sharing. But I’ve tried that and that’s ineffective for me. It may work for you.”

Everyone’s got a different biome, different genetics, but you cannot just go read a book and actually have the result. And you won’t know what it takes for you to put it into practice until you start doing and swinging and failing.



John Patterson: My special thanks to our guest, Suzanne Pool. In our show notes, you’ll find links to connect with her and all the links to any websites, books or downloads mentioned in this podcast.

The Influence Ecology Podcast is produced by Influence Ecology, LLC in Ventura, California. This episode was recorded April 1st, 2019 and was produced by Tyson Crandall and John Patterson. You can find a transcript for this and other episodes at InfluenceEcology.com. This episode is made possible through the assistance of the Influence Ecology Faculty, Staff, Mentors, and Students around the world. Co-founder Kirkland Tibbels and our colleagues comprise an international collective of professionals who are active in the development of the philosophy of Transactionalism and the discipline of Transactional Competence. Kirkland is considered a leading philosopher and authority in the field and he has authored more than 500 papers on the subject, study, and discipline.

This episode includes contributions by Karal Gregory. The podcast theme is by Chris Standring and titled ‘Fast Train to Everywhere.’ You can subscribe to the Influence Ecology Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn or via email at podcast@influenceecology.com.

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Influence Ecology is the leading business education specializing in Transactional Competence, having published and contributed to the only comprehensive text on the subject, Transactionalism: An Historic and Interpretive Study by Trevor J. Phillips. Co-Founder Kirkland Tibbels has authored more than 500 papers on the subject, study, and discipline of transactional competence and is a sought-after lecturer at universities, major corporations, and civic organizations around the world. 

Influence Ecology’s curriculum includes conferences, webinars, online tools, podcasts, and mentorship utilized by men and women in over seventy countries around the world. Our membership includes an international assembly of accomplished professionals, faculty, and peers from a variety of countries, industries, and cultures.