We all think we know more than we actually do.
Do you know how paper is made? How does a toilet work? How about a pen? Our species has produced sophisticated technologies, cities, and accomplishments, but most of us don’t honestly know how these things work. How can we aspire to so much despite understanding so little? Perhaps genius is instead found in the ways we co-opt the intelligence of the social ecology: Our collaborative minds enable us to aspire to great things.
In the 2017 book The Knowledge Illusion, cognitive scientists Steven Sloman and Philip Fernbach argue that we survive—and thrive—despite our mental shortcomings because we live in a vibrant community of knowledge, continually drawing on information and expertise stored in the community with which we transact.
Cory Shepherd, president and financial advisor of Sound Financial Group, is a case study in our mantra: Dreams come true in groups. We can accomplish our loftiest aims when immersed amongst an ecology of resourceful, intelligent, and ambitious mentors and peers. Previously, Cory was convinced that as long as he thought positively and worked hard, everything would turn out. Now, he has moved away from laborious work to harness the knowledge and power of the group.
Below you’ll find a transcript of this podcast episode that has been edited for your reading pleasure. You’ll also see links at the bottom of this post where you can find more information on the people and ideas mentioned in the episode.
Produced by: John Patterson, Jason Kelley & Tyson Crandall
“Everything you want in life can be found in groups.”
John Patterson: Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, wherever you are in the world. I’m your host, John Patterson, the Co-Founder and CEO of Influence Ecology, the leading business education in Transactional Competence. Broadcasting from Ventura, California, this podcast features case studies, stories and lessons from business owners, executives and entrepreneurs who found real solutions, real results and real satisfaction, not only with work, career, and money, but in every area of life.
You’ll hear how these ambitious professionals found that those who transact powerfully thrive. We all think we know more than we actually do. Do you know how paper is made? How does a toilet work? How about a pen? Our species has produced sophisticated technologies, cities and accomplishment, but most of us don’t honestly know how these things work. How can we aspire to so much despite understanding so little? Perhaps genius is instead found in the ways that co-opt the intelligence of the social ecology. Our collaborative mind enables us to aspire to great things.
In the 2017 book, The Knowledge Illusion, cognitive scientists, Stephen Sloman and Philip Fernbach argued that we survive and thrive despite our mental shortcomings because we live in a vibrant community of knowledge continually drawing on information and expertise stored in the community with which we transact. Cory Shepherd, president and financial advisor of Sound Financial Group, is a case study in our mantra, Dreams Come True in Groups, that we can accomplish our loftiest aims when immersed amongst an ecology of resourceful, intelligent and ambitious mentors and peers.
Previously, Cory was convinced that as long as he thought positively and worked hard, everything would turn out. Now, he has moved away from laborious work to harness the knowledge and power of the group. Here’s the interview.
Cory Shepherd, welcome to the Influence Ecology Podcasts. It’s great to have you here with us.
Cory Shepherd: Thank you, John. It’s my pleasure.
John: I want to give you the opportunity to first introduce yourself if you would.
Cory: My name is Cory Shepherd. I am the President of Sound Financial Group, and the author of Cape Not Required, and also a student of Influence Ecology for little over a year, year and a half now.
John: Fantastic. You live where?
Cory: I live in– It’s a complicated question to answer. I live in Seattle, Washington for the next four weeks, and then a little bit less than that, and then I moved to the great city of Chicago to support my wife in her residency match to pediatric program at Northwestern University.
John: That’s great because you get the come play with us in Chicago too when we do our workshops locally there.
Cory: Yes, it’ll be fun. It makes a move a lot better when I’m parachuting in with some community already there, which is just fabulous.
John: It is, isn’t it? It’s great to have a community around for those reasons. Say a little bit about what Sound Financial Group does and what your role is in it.
Cory: Sure. If I say we’re a financial planning firm or a financial advising firm, it’s going to be wrong, but it’s going to get people close enough to understand the world that we’re in. I mean it’s going to be wrong because I think their experience would be that we’re quite a bit different than any other financial firm that they’ve met with. We have a client profile that’s actually fairly similar to Influence Ecology.
In general, its clients about 250,000 to 1,000,005 of household income. We do income as our measure of what kind of client would fit not assets under management, which is what most folks are used to for financial firms. Part of that is we know that they’re– Getting to a portfolio is a conversation for on down the road because there’s lots of other things to sort out. Lots of other sources of inefficiency or leaks out of the balance sheet to deal with first. If someone needs help getting their cash flow sorted out, we can help them sort out their cash flow, get them saving appropriately, and they’ll become whatever that asset level would have been otherwise in pretty short order, especially for the physicians that I tend to specialize with in my practice.
Doctors come out of school with a lot of debt and a good income and they need some help turning that into the assets and wealth and just resources to have the rest of their life work out the way that they want. I don’t want to wait around 20 years for them to get some amount of assets that would qualify them for a large investment account when I could have probably helped him get there faster. I’ve just seen so many, not just doctors, any anybody at all have life happen with a little bit of naivete around all the consequences and then there’s some time that we could have taken advantage of that gets wasted. They get a few years down the road and they would rather started earlier.
John: I know what you deal with about saying well, we’re a financial planning company because it doesn’t quite say exactly who you are. I think sometimes it helps to say what you’re not or perhaps what it is that we ought to remove from our thinking when we think of Sound Financial Group. Anything we ought to remove from the way we think about a Financial Planning Organization to get a little closer to what you guys do?
Cory: The walnut walls and giant conference table would be the first one. Paul and I, building a business together, both had things like freedom of location and time with our family and pursuing all the different aims in life as a big goal. We figured that a lot of the clients that we would want to work with, but also want those as well. We’re in a location irrelevant environment, meaning we do all of our meetings online with our clients. Even the ones that I currently live very close to in Seattle, we meet with all online for this very reason.
Whether they have an opportunity to move or be somewhere else for a job, and we don’t want them to have to start over with a financial firm and I have an opportunity in my life to pursue and they don’t have to start over and I don’t have to start over with someone new either. I think that would be the big one. Having to drive across town, get both couple into the same room at the same time during the day for a long meeting, none of that. The other is going straight into that question about, are we asset manager?
We do manage assets for clients, but that’s not at all where we start and for lots of our clients, we don’t. Because we know that we’re not right for every client. For the clients that we are right for, we want to spend a whole lot of time with them and do a whole lot of education. We start every client relationship with a fee up front like a consulting contract so that they know they’re paying us for our advice and our advice only so that at the end of that relationship, we give them a roadmap, a set of instructions for here’s exactly what to do to produce all these things that we talked about you wanting to produce, gain efficiency in your accounts, have better outcomes with what you’re currently doing, or the changes to have the better outcomes that you want.
They can either do it themselves, take it to their friend down the street who works for the large firm with the big glass windows and all that, or some combination of the two. The metaphor we like to draw is like the design build architects firms where you can pay an architect a fee to design your blueprint, and then you can either go to whatever contractor you want, or walk down the hall to use their in house services if you’ve got a great relationship and that feels the most effective and efficient for you.
We can actually engage with a lot wider range of people than many firms can that we previously could. My favorite is the do it yourselfer. The person who’s going to create a portfolio on their online trading account and do everything by themselves. They don’t want a single person touching any buttons that do anything to their money. I love those people now because they often are smart enough to know that there might be something that they’re missing, and they just want that second opinion.
They can consult with us once to get a once over, or they could consult with us on an annual ongoing basis just to make sure that they’re not missing anything. We have clients like that that love us for that part of our business.
John: That’s great. To further distinguish how you guys are distinct from a financial planning services company. I experienced that when the average person starts to think, “Wow, I need some financial planning.” They go look up financial planning, and then they go find that on the web, and then they find someone near them, and then they go call that person.
They’re likely to get a similar service or set of products that are traditional. I think that although you might be able to obtain some of those things through you guys, that isn’t your primary focus. Can you say a little bit about that because I think– There are obviously many people at Influence Ecology who know of Sound Financial Group, many of our customers work with you guys and so forth.
Again, people normally go look for financial planning and get what? What might they instead get with Sound Financial Group?
Cory: Folks normally go look for financial planning, and they get a process where they pile all their documents under the table, push them across the wood to the advisor and say, “It’s too much. It’s crazy. It’s this giant pile. Just tell me what to do.” What they get back is a 50 to 80 page book, usually bound beautifully in leather, looks marvelous on that conference table, and is a very, very expensive paperweight.
The reason I say that is, I actually had the experience of discovering a client of my first firm that I worked throughout to college had used their plan to level their pool table.
It was really a ledge under one of the legs. I thought that is not creating nearly as much value as I thought it was and they certainly have a less expensive solution to that problem, so I need to do something different.
Number one, that giant plan is built on all kinds of assumptions. Averages over time to summarize the vast variability and chaos that is our world. There’s a couple problems. One, life is so random that the only thing I can tell you is whatever that one course is it chartered out on that plan is the one thing that’s guaranteed not to happen. Meaning, it’s going to be something more or less than that line, but I guarantee you it’ll be different because the world is too random to have got it right that first time.
Second, we have got a particular problem with assigning broad averages to individual experience. Meaning, an institution would use numbers about large demographic data to price their products. Say a young doctors looking up on their research portals the likelihood of getting an injury or an illness that would have them out of work. My wife looks those things up all the time in the middle of dinner, et cetera. I know how quickly they can get that information.
The problem would be, whatever decision that they make, that they used that institutional data to make their decision because an insurance company, for instance, doesn’t care who it happens to specifically in that pool, they just care that they got the numbers right over the large group. An individual like I very much care if I get hit by a bus or not today. That matters a lot to me. For things like risk, whether it’s becoming disabled, or the movement of your portfolio in the market, there’s none of this airy 10% chance of 30% drop.
None of that really works for our decision making centers of our brain, which are largely unchanged from what we inherited from our ancestors who were primarily worried about running away from tigers in the jungle. Consequences work much better. For these unknown things in life, it’s either a zero percent chance of it happening, or 100% chance because it just happened. That’s how it works for an individual. We don’t build a plan like that. We come up with a series of conversations and strategies to test the relative strength of action that the client could be in.
We can never predict how everything will end up at the end, but we can measure the relative strength of two strategies, and if one is performing stronger than the other– I say perform but I want to be clear I’m not talking about market performance necessarily, just the outcomes that they produce. If one’s going to be better than the other, whatever the outcome is that one, we can test whether it’s going to always be better to some degree and go with a stronger strategy.
You asked about products and traditional thinking. Number one strategy is going to beat products every day of the week. Meaning there are some products that are traditional, have been around for a long time, but it’s not the product’s fault if it’s not working out well for the client. It’s how it was put in place and how it’s used. Tools are tools that strategy and use of the tool makes all the difference. We look at a lot of traditional planning and we just bring a set of thinking to say, “Everyone says this is how this is, and your friends all say this is a good idea, but god, when someone tells me, “Oh yes, my friend said that was great. I love that. Let’s do that.” I full stop and I say that’s about the most dangerous phrase I can ever imagine hearing because you’re making your decisions based on someone else’s thinking and understanding and you might be missing something that’s important to you. We need to make sure that you understand deeply the implications of this move for your family so that you know it’s the right thing. As much as I could try to care about a client situation, I just never can care as much about their life, their balance sheet as they do because it’s their life and their money.
John: All right. Good. Thank you. You and many of the people around Sound Financial and some of the friends and family and people around Sound Financial are participating in Influence Ecology. Again, many of our customers have become customers of Sound Financial Group. Why do you think these things fit together as well as they do?
Cory: Influence Ecology and Sound Financial Group?
Cory: I think that it’s not distinct to Sound Financial Group. I think that it’s easier to talk about us interacting with other folks in Influence Ecology. It’s a transaction that pops up in conversation a lot, especially in conferences. We’re dealing with money specifically. It just bubbles up. I think if you did a survey of everyone in Influence Ecology, you would know that everyone in our learning and work prefers working with others that are in our work and it goes smoother because we’ve studied this together about how to be lower cost to each other, about how to work better in that transaction.
Influence Ecology is not about how to push everyone else away and rise up to the top to become King of the Mountain, it’s about how to interact with the humans around you to make more for everyone, and I think that’s key. Also one thing I really appreciate about Influence Ecology is as much the clients I am working with there, but even more the ones that I’m not. Meaning, the ones that declined our offer because we know we’re not high for everyone. Oh my God John, the speed at which a decline can happen, the grace and the definitiveness just to say, “I hear it. Sounds great. Not right for me. We can go back to doing other work together, or we can get on with our lives great.” That has just been a huge gift as well.
John: That’s great. Well, I think the other context that I think is there too is just simply that both of us tend to approach money amongst other conditions of life with some accurate thinking and then build our lives and our transactions accordingly. I think that’s also a framework that I see in both. All right, well, Cory, for your own journey in Influence Ecology for everybody, we want to offer a little bit of a case study. Your own journey is a case study in life before, during and after you found us and what you learned here.
Just in terms of your own experience, what was life like before Influence Ecology, and say a little bit about that.
Cory: I grew up firmly in the middle of the self esteem generation, that everyone gets a trophy for participating, can’t we all sit around and tell each other how wonderful we are generation. Now, thankfully my parents were not helicopter parents, they let me get out there, scrape my knees, supported me just as much in failure as in success. I think that made a huge difference, but I still had the sense that and if I just keep a positive attitude and keep pushing hard, everything will work out.
I was a runner in high school. Some of our mantras from our team, which we were very successful competing on a State level, things like never stop, keep pushing, gut through it, all of those things that served us really well in running melded in my mind with that self esteem generation kind of thinking so when I got to the business world, it was, all right, just keep pushing and think good thoughts and no matter what happens, it’ll all work out in the end. I’ve learned that that’s not so much the case.
John: How did you come to the conclusion that it’s not necessarily the case?
Cory: Part of it was starting my journey of learning how to do the work that I do and realize that lots of folks, the baby boomer generation, especially as a case study, was positive thinking, throwing money at the future hoping that it’ll work out and that didn’t necessarily work out quite as well because there’s a lot of things to consider. Then when I get into influence ecology, start doing this study I realize, yes, there are a lot of, let’s call them technical aspects to producing a good result. Maybe those clients that I called and left very positive messages for five times in a week, maybe that’s now the reason why they don’t want to talk to me, maybe I need to have some better strategy for making an offer, accepting their decline, setting up a structure for how to communicate with people that works well and that is mutually agreeable. Then that’s just one out of many examples of you’ve got to have some planning.
Number one, you’ve got to think very clearly about what we even want to have happen in the future, and then check to see if the actions we’re in are going to produce those results. Again, being part of that self esteem generation with the audio tape gurus. It’s kind of funny that I’m now old enough that I can start dating myself with technology, but the audio tape gurus that you’re driving around listening to the positive affirmations and that will all make it work out really, really well. I thought, this is wonderful, and I want to have a billion dollars a year of income and the five of the cool cars and homes all over the world because that’s what you’re supposed to want. You’re supposed to dream big and want all these things. Then I got to walk through some exercises in influence ecology. That actually happened when I was thinking about what I wanted for the last year, my wife’s schooling and I had a big number, and then I was talking to a dear friend and he said that’s a really big number for results. If it was less than that but you stayed connected with your wife. She felt supported in school. You had good relationships with your friends and family and business colleagues. When you got to eat some good food along the way and maybe take a couple of trips, would you be happy?” I said, “Yes. Actually, I would.”
It took a lot of pressure off of me to say why don’t I build the life and my actions around what I actually want and will actually fulfill me in my life and my family, and then I can just do the things that’ll get me there. The other part about that positive thinking is, you never let up. You never get to stop, you’re always positively pushing forward and he just grows and grows and grows in it and actually be exhausting. I like to give myself the permission to take a day off here and there, and that’s what work around influence ecology could do to say, here are my aims, here’s the actions I need to be in to get there and then once I get those things done, then I can choose to go more if I want or give myself the permission to actually take some time off. That’s a really cool permission to have.
John: That’s great, and you identify as what personality is we talk about it.
Cory: Anyone that’s familiar with those will know that I’m a performer just from the speed and energy with which I’m talking. So yes, performer.
John: Okay. A good intro to our audience and nobody’s ever heard about that and doesn’t know what the heck we’re talking about. What in your own words does that mean?
Cory: A performer of the four personality types and Influence Ecology talks about is about relationship, first and foremost. For me what that means is, you can think of it as the person that always wants everyone around and be having a good time. Like I’m concerned with others’ feelings and thoughts towards me and about the atmosphere that we’re currently in, so I’ll be concerned with the relationship, although I’ve discovered the dark side of performer is the second that it’s clear that relationship has no importance to the other person, like their relationship with me, they’re done, and that’s, that’s a hard thing to fight. It’s the bubbly outgoing everyone have a great time kind of personality.
John: Great. If we take your personality, paid performer personality and the notion that if you just power through it, you could say I just relationship through it. If I just relationship people, I would imagine that some of what’s there and your background to five great and people I take care of them and then it’ll all turn out. Did you find any naivete around that and if so, what’d you find out?
Cory: Sure. Early in my business career, doing financial advising is all that I’ve ever done since college. I started really early, so I got to walk through a lot of personal discovery inside the context of this. I would come home from work. My wife would ask like how was your day and I said great. I talked to three people, had wonderful conversations and she would ask, “Well, do you have a new client?” Well, no. This was the first time I ever talked to them. We’ve got to set up this meeting and maybe we’ll– Misinterpreting a good conversation as any kind of real result is the real trap of a performer. We’ve got to stay grounded in what actually got produced here. Did anyone ever actually leave that conversation thinking that anything was going to happen? My tendency that I discovered was that I was so friendly in making requests that people could miss that a request had even been made.
A week later, I’m sitting here thinking why did they not get back to me with this, and then as I go through my communication with them, especially if it was via email, I could see, maybe they’re sitting there expecting me to call them back or something like that. That was a big lesson for me.
John: That’s really great. All right, so you start off your journey growing up in the self-esteem generation. You begin to confront your thought, to just press through it and all of that. You started to think accurately, start to account for your personality, and then in the latter part of your journeys, you began to develop Transactional Competence. There’s some thinking that in your notes you talked about getting to guide some of your thoughts and skills and so forth. One of those things that you said was welcome to your brain. I love this bed, and I think it’d be great if you could take us back to the moment. I think it was probably in the conference where we had this moment and said something about that. Do you remember when you first heard this bit with Influence Ecology?
Cory: I do. The other part about my generation is that independence that’s pushed it positive thinking. Just go for it and you can do anything. You. It gets really selfish. It gets really me focused.
John: If it’s to be it’s up to me.
Cory: Exactly. When it was Kirkland Tibbels who said in the conference, everything you want in life can be found in groups, and then a little bit later pointed to this whole room of Influence Ecology members and said, “Welcome to your brain.” What that did for me was all of a sudden, my brain expanded to be the whole room. Meaning, I realized that I’m a limited person. We say we only had– each had 24 hours in a day, but it’s really not true. Time is actually an infinite resource if we know how to contract with other people and get the help of other people to use their time towards our aims.
Now, we should also be helping them use their time towards their aims. It only really works if it’s towards both of your goals at the same time, but that’s what I realized was I have access to this amazing pool of talent, if you will, that all of these people that not only have studied the work of Influence Ecology and know a thing or two about interacting with other humans, but then they have all these skills and abilities that I could never have had, and if I get good at making requests for help, which asking for help has traditionally been very difficult for me, but this was part of the breakthrough is that I’m, and I’m fairly useless by myself and I really had to own that. I think we all are and anybody who says,”I can do it all on my own”, it’s like well, are you using a computer today because you probably didn’t make that yourself. Are you driving to work today because you had millions of people contributing to the roads, tires, gas and everything else around you transporting yourself to wherever you are.
As humans, we’re made to work in community with each other. That’s our advantage over any of the animals out there. We don’t have the ability to jump as higher, use our clause or anything like that, but we can coordinate with each other towards the mutual goals in a really unique way. That’s what Influence Ecology has become for me. Some education, yes, but also this pool of people that we have a privilege of diving in together to try to make our lives work. We have clients from Influence Ecology, but we are also the clients of other people and Influence Ecology because it’s one of the first places we look for who we can gain resources from.
John: That’s really great. I’m remembering my own experience of that moment in the conference, and I suddenly expanded my brain to include everything you know, everything Paul knows, everything Gary Ward knows. I have that available to me, but I also have their experiences, their practical knowledge.
I also have the resources available to me of every person in that room, and it really made me quite limitless in that moment. I felt as if as long as I can transact with competence to satisfy our mutual aims, the sky’s the limit. If it’s to be, it’s up to me completely transformed into what we now say which is all dreams come true in groups.
Cory: It’s the alchemy of community, old alchemists are thought of as crazy now. They weren’t totally off base. They were just using the wrong substance. It’s not gold that thereafter really it’s humans and that’s where we can produce more than was there before.
John: That’s fantastic. You’ve written a book called Cape not required. I love the title of the book by the way.
Cory: Thank you.
John: I’m wondering what you address in that book and how it might be related to some of what we’ve talked about here.
Cory: Sure. Paul Adams had already written a book about the financial experience of our firm, of a client going through our process and what they might learn called Sound Financial Advice. We already had that side covered and as I surveyed the landscape, there were lots of money books out there and frankly with Paul’s book and what we do, I’d rather talk to people about their money because I can customize that conversation rather than write a one size fits all, here’s the next step because that just never really works. I thought well, what am I passionate about as a young financial advisor who also was a leader of a team of 30 plus advisors at one point and then intentionally made the choice to go to a much more nimble footprint of an organization. I had to learn a lot over that period of time about how to interact with humans, how to lead, how to put my life together.
I said I want to write a book about all of the non-financial elements that a client might actually end up gleaning from working with us, because it’s not about money and it’s not just about math. I like to say that money isn’t math, its math plus human behavior, and when that human behavior comes in, it really can make those equations do all kinds of crazy things. That’s what I started to look at and I used the concept of power as the background model for my book because power is really fascinating to me. If you think about golf as an example, weightlifters are not the ones that are going to be able to hit the ball the farthest. A lot of the golfers that have long drives these days are actually fairly slender folks, so it’s not about ROM muscle but it’s about translating energy into the right direction. At the right time, and that coordination and so power also has some negative connotations in our country.
You think about the power hungry politician, and that’s a really negative view of power or the powerful executive cheating the people whatever that background view might be and while there are some bad apples, powers and agnostic resource just like anything, if it’s internal nature is not good or bad but it’s how that is used. Someone can use their power to cheat millions or save millions of lives, just depending on how you use it. That’s the context that I pursued, a few different looks at what we can do in our life to live more powerfully, feel more powerful and more agency in our life and have more of what we want to have happened, better relationships, better connections with people in our lives all through power.
John: All right, very good. Any soapbox rants that you have.
Cory: You gave me the opportunity to talk about my financials soapbox, which is my professional, soapbox. There’s one I’ve been thinking about recently, which is this. I’ve observed this current of orientation in our country, especially in a political sphere that is non functional in my view. This is not going to be a political statement, just to say that all across the spectrum, I see this recurring perspective that that person that thinks differently than me is an idiot. That’s how it all starts, and there’s also this sometimes this view of you can think any way you want. Every view is allowed except an asterix or parentheses, except if it’s different than mine. What I would rather I see in our country is for everyone to pursue the other person’s opinion from the point of view of, this is an intelligent human that cares about something or someone very deeply. Let me understand why they’re coming from that view and I might disagree with them afterward, but I can at least understand more about what they’re thinking.
I’ve found that in Influence Ecology, by the way, this is what it made me realize it, is that, we have a wide range of religious, political, social views and influence ecology. I think every single part of the spectrum is available and yet I’ve never found a community where people are more willing to engage with those ideas and respectfully disagree, and that’ That’s old school, that’s something our country used to do really well and I’m hoping that we can do it well again. Otherwise, we’re just going to be torn further and farther apart.
John: It’s very well said. All right, of course, Shepherd, it’s been an absolute pleasure to spend time with you on the Influence Ecology podcast.
Cory: Thank you, John. I appreciate the opportunity. This has been a lot of fun.
John: This episode ends this season of the Influence Ecology Podcast. We’ll be back again soon with more case studies, stories and lessons from our most ambitious members. My special thanks to our guest, Corey Shepherd, and I will show notes, you’ll find links to connect with him and all the links to websites, books or downloads mentioned in this podcast. Some episodes included transcript and support material. The Influence Ecology Podcast is produced by Influence Ecology LLC in Ventura, California. This episode was produced by me, John Patterson, and Jason Kelly. This program is made possible through the assistance of the Influence Ecology faculty, mentors, and students around the world.
We’re grateful for co-founder Kirkland Tibbels and his 30 plus years of specialized study in the philosophy of Transactionalism and the fundamentals of Transactional Competence. This episode includes contributions by Carol Gregory and Tyson Crandall. For this episode, the sound design and editing are by Jason Kelly. The podcast theme is by Chris Standring and titled Fast Train to everywhere.
You can subscribe to the Influence Ecology Podcast on Apple podcasts, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn or via firstname.lastname@example.org. I want to thank you for offering a rating or review. This helps us more than you know. The Influence Ecology Podcast is produced by Influence Ecology, LLC in Ventura, California. This episode was recorded April 8th, 2018 and was produced by John Patterson and Jason Kelly. This program is made possible through the assistance of the Influence Ecology faculty, mentors, and students around the world. We’re grateful for Co-founder Kirkland Tibbels and his 30+ years of specialized study in the philosophy of Transactionalism and the fundamentals of Transactional Competence.
This episode includes contributions by Karal Gregory and Tyson Crandall. For this episode, the sound design and editing are by Jason Kelley. The podcast theme is by Chris Standring and titled ‘Fast Train to Everywhere.’ You can subscribe to the Influence Ecology Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn or via email at email@example.com.
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Influence Ecology is the leading business education specializing in Transactional Competence, having published and contributed to the only comprehensive text on the subject, Transactionalism: An Historic and Interpretive Study by Trevor J. Phillips. Co-Founder Kirkland Tibbels has authored more than 500 papers on the subject, study, and discipline of transactional competence and is a sought-after lecturer at universities, major corporations, and civic organizations around the world.
Influence Ecology’s curriculum includes conferences, webinars, online tools, podcasts, and mentorship utilized by men and women in over seventy countries around the world. Our membership includes an international assembly of accomplished professionals, faculty, and peers from a variety of countries, industries, and cultures.